{"id":146720,"date":"2026-03-26T08:00:49","date_gmt":"2026-03-26T12:00:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/?post_type=articles&#038;p=146720"},"modified":"2026-06-02T09:43:35","modified_gmt":"2026-06-02T13:43:35","slug":"the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm","status":"publish","type":"articles","link":"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/articles\/professional-development\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\/","title":{"rendered":"The Business of Learning, Episode 95: Navigating Imposter Syndrome as an L&#038;D Leader"},"author":52,"featured_media":0,"template":"","tags":[36717,2078,36718],"class_list":["post-146720","articles","type-articles","status-publish","hentry","tag-confidence-building","tag-imposter-syndrome","tag-self-doubt","global_topic_tax-leadership","global_topic_tax-professional-development"],"acf":{"sponsored":false,"gated":false,"gated_content_type":"","file_attachment":null,"gated_content":"","form_instruction_header":"To access the full article, please fill out the form below:","pardot_html_embed":"","author_override":true,"author_name":"Training Industry, Inc.\u00a0","author_image":"","author_bio":"","excerpt":"Learn to recognize, manage, and overcome imposter syndrome to build confidence and drive impact in L&D roles.","main_content":"<iframe style=\"width: 100%; height: auto; aspect-ratio: 16\/9;\" title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/x026QCGmPeY?si=HCDTq5nxXM_wpQ8F\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe>\r\n\r\n<iframe style=\"border: none; min-width: min(100%, 430px); height: 150px;\" title=\"The Business of Learning, Episode 95: Navigating Imposter Syndrome\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/player-v2\/?i=fnfz6-1a814a0-pb&amp;from=pb6admin&amp;share=1&amp;download=1&amp;rtl=0&amp;fonts=Arial&amp;skin=1&amp;font-color=auto&amp;logo_link=episode_page&amp;btn-skin=7\" width=\"100%\" height=\"150\" scrolling=\"no\" data-name=\"pb-iframe-player\"><\/iframe>\r\nImposter syndrome can quietly undermine even the most accomplished L&amp;D professionals, causing self-doubt, hesitation and stress in day-to-day work. But what does it really look like in training and development, and how can professionals overcome it to lead with confidence?\r\n\r\nIn this episode of The Business of Learning, we spoke with Loren Sanders, CPTM and vice president of learning strategy and consulting at WeLearn Learning Services, and Ruth Phillips, training and education senior specialist at Higginbotham, to explore practical strategies for recognizing and overcoming imposter syndrome.\r\n\r\nTune in now for insights on:\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li>How imposter syndrome can show up in L&amp;D professionals\u2019 daily work<\/li>\r\n \t<li>Mindset shifts and practical strategies to manage self-doubt<\/li>\r\n \t<li>Advice for learning leaders to reframe pressure and move forward with confidence<\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\nMore Resources:\r\n<ul>\r\n \t<li>[Article] <a href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/articles\/professional-development\/leading-while-doubting-turning-impostor-syndrome-into-influence-cptm\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Leading While Doubting: Turning Impostor Syndrome Into Influence<\/a><\/li>\r\n \t<li>[Article] <a href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/magazine\/fall-2025\/feeling-like-a-fraud-youre-not-alone\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Feeling Like a Fraud? You're Not Alone<\/a><\/li>\r\n \t<li>[Course] <a href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/courses\/training-industry-senior-leaders-program\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Training Industry Senior Leaders Program<\/a><\/li>\r\n<\/ul>\r\n<em>The Training Industry Senior Leaders Program equips you with the skills you need to lead at the enterprise level. Download the program brochure to learn more: <\/em>\r\n\r\n[hubspot type=\"form\" portal=\"47185625\" id=\"764ef41e-67bd-4f16-8433-5024fb8ab34d\" version=\"v4\"]\r\n\r\n<em>The transcript for this episode follows: <\/em>\r\n\r\n<i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">If\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0a senior L&amp;D professional ready to take your learning leadership to the executive level, the Training Industry Senior Leaders Program is designed for you. This elite, five-month, virtual program equips you with the mindset, tools, and network to rise to the C-suite and redefine\u00a0learning\u2019s\u00a0role in business. Through interactive<\/span><\/i><em> discussions, case\u00a0studies\u00a0and\u00a0a high-fidelity business simulation,\u00a0you\u2019ll\u00a0build executive presence, financial and business acumen, and data-driven decision-making skills that will position you as a trusted business leader. Visit\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/courses\/training-industry-senior-leaders-program\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">TrainingIndustry.com\/SeniorLeadersProgram<\/a>\u00a0to learn more<\/em><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><\/i><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Hi! Welcome back to The Business of Learning.\u00a0I'm\u00a0Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editor in chief here at Training Industry.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo: And I am Sarah Gallo, a senior editor. Today\u00a0we're\u00a0diving into a topic\u00a0that's\u00a0surprisingly common in the L&amp;D world, but often not talked about enough: imposter syndrome. Many learning professionals experience feelings of self-doubt, feeling like\u00a0you're\u00a0not doing or achieving enough even when\u00a0you've\u00a0proven your\u00a0skills\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">and\u00a0expertise.\u00a0So\u00a0to learn more about this challenge and how to navigate it, we are joined by Loren Sanders, a Certified Professional in Training Management and vice president of learning strategy and consulting at WeLearn Learning Services, and by Ruth Phillips, a training and education senior specialist at Higginbotham.\u00a0So\u00a0Loren and Ruth, welcome.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Michelle\u00a0Egglerston\u00a0Schwartz:\u00a0Yes. Welcome.\u00a0Thank you so much for joining us today.\u00a0To kind of kick things off and get things\u00a0started,\u00a0 how\u00a0do you define imposter syndrome and how might it show up in an L&amp;D professional's day to day work?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: I am happy to take this one\u00a0first, if\u00a0that works. I really look at imposter cinema as a pattern of thoughts where very capable people are not trusting the evidence of their own effectiveness, and the way that it shows up in L&amp;D\u00a0professionals\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">more\u00a0behaviorally than emotionally.\u00a0So\u00a0we\u00a0don't\u00a0always hear people. Talking about it or saying that they feel it, but we see it in overpreparing or rewriting something 10 times before we feel like\u00a0it's\u00a0good enough to put in front of a stakeholder working 60,\u00a070,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">80\u00a0hours\u00a0a week. And then\u00a0there's\u00a0an added pressure to\u00a0kind of justify\u00a0your role constantly because we live in. Total complexity all the time.\u00a0You're\u00a0accountable for capability. A lot of times\u00a0you're\u00a0accountable\u00a0for\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">culture,\u00a0you're\u00a0accountable for performance, but a lot of times accountable for things that you have zero control of, and that kind of ambiguity can really sharpen your awareness. And sometimes that awareness can itself as doubt in our psyche.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips:\u00a0Yeah, absolutely.\u00a0I think I\u00a0always tell\u00a0people\u00a0imposter syndrome is that voice in the back of your head that tells you that\u00a0you're\u00a0not smart enough or good enough, like you\u00a0don't\u00a0know what\u00a0you're\u00a0doing. And I see a lot of trainers and educators experience that by saying,\u00a0why'd\u00a0they pick\u00a0me\u00a0to teach this class or lead this class?\u00a0There\u2019s\u00a0a hundred other people smarter in this\u00a0room\u00a0and they are more\u00a0than\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">capable\u00a0of doing it. But they have those self-doubts that they just picked\u00a0me\u00a0because they needed to fill a spot at the table or. many other excuses when they\u00a0picked\u00a0you because you are the person to do the job.\u00a0You're\u00a0smart,\u00a0you're\u00a0capable. But sometimes we doubt ourselves so much that we\u00a0don't\u00a0think we are that person.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: I love that you\u00a0brought that up\u00a0because when that thought\u00a0shows up in\u00a0you, it creates a certain type of behavior, right?\u00a0We're\u00a0behavior\u00a0people\u00a0we're\u00a0performance\u00a0people.\u00a0So\u00a0think about the behavior that it creates on you when you have those feelings, and if\u00a0it's\u00a0making you\u00a0prepare and clarify\u00a0and think clearly. You now\u00a0to think\u00a0about those as leadership strengths.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo: I love that reframe.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: It\u2019s really important, if we're able to recognize when we have those feelings and turn them into positive I know, and, and it shows up at weird times and I can even see myself doing that and I'm like, okay, that's the crazy voice in my head and I know it's crazy. me deal with it instead of reacting crazily with\u00a0it.Crazily, is that a word? I\u00a0don't\u00a0think\u00a0that's\u00a0a word, but I\u00a0don't\u00a0want to spin out of control because of that voice. I can listen to it.\u00a0I can hear it, but I want to shut it down and be like, no, you know, I got this.\u00a0I'm\u00a0prepared.\u00a0I've\u00a0done my homework.\u00a0I'm\u00a0good\u00a0to go.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0I find it\u00a0helps too if you name that voice. I have a client that calls hers Penelope, and\u00a0she'll\u00a0be like \u201cOh, shut up, Penelope.\u201d And it seems to really help.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: I love that.\u00a0Yeah. I, um, my boss knows that I struggle with imposter syndrome a lot, and\u00a0I'm\u00a0like, okay, this is crazy. Me talking now and I know\u00a0I'm\u00a0crazy. Just remind me that I am not, and she laughs at me and, and she\u00a0doesn't\u00a0like, oh no,\u00a0you're, you got this.\u00a0She's\u00a0like,\u00a0she gives me facts. She reminds me to go back and look at those facts about why\u00a0I'm\u00a0doing what\u00a0I'm\u00a0doing. And that really helps too.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo:\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0Kind of piggybacking off of that, I'd love to hear more about both of your own experiences with imposter syndrome.\u00a0Well Ruth,\u00a0you've\u00a0mentioned that\u00a0you've\u00a0experienced this, but kind of what\u00a0that's\u00a0looked like for you? Have you experienced it\u00a0maybe at\u00a0different career points, and if so, how did it really show up?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: I think so when I first\u00a0started at\u00a0my job at Higginbotham, they brought me on as a training and education person.\u00a0So\u00a0I'm\u00a0teaching insurance to people and in my mind, they\u00a0didn't\u00a0bring me to teach. They brought me to find\u00a0a\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">subject\u00a0matter expert to teach and. My boss sat me down and\u00a0he's\u00a0like, what are you doing? You are here because I want you\u00a0teaching. I\u00a0don't\u00a0want you\u00a0finding\u00a0somebody else. I hired you for your skills. And it really brought it home. And even though\u00a0I've\u00a0been doing this for several years,\u00a0we're\u00a0expanding our\u00a0team\u00a0and\u00a0we're\u00a0hiring someone new.\u00a0Right? That's,\u00a0that's\u00a0great.\u00a0We're\u00a0doing great at our job and\u00a0everything's\u00a0going\u00a0good. But you\u00a0know,\u00a0that voice, that crazy voice is like,\u00a0they're\u00a0looking for someone to replace me.\u00a0I'm\u00a0not good enough and\u00a0I'm\u00a0being replaced, and I\u00a0have to\u00a0interview the person\u00a0that's\u00a0going to replace me. Absolutely insanely crazy. And you just\u00a0have to\u00a0stop and pause and be like, is that right? Is that reality as it\u00a0is, or\u00a0is it my mind going nuts and\u00a0it's\u00a0absolutely my mind going nuts.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0For me, I can say\u00a0it's\u00a0tied to every major transition\u00a0I've\u00a0ever had. There's always that moment where each new level resets your confidence temporarily; more responsibility might increase.\u00a0Your reflection and knowing that that's part of leadership growth is really important.\u00a0Otherwise, it can get you stuck in a spiral. But early on, for me, it looked very much like overpreparing because I needed to be sure of\u00a0every single thing, mid-career. It\u00a0kind of shifted\u00a0to feeling pressure. I needed to have the perfect answer before I could respond. It looked like me being kind of quiet I knew the words that I was going to say had impact, and then as your visibility grows, it starts to quiet down and\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">it feels a little bit more like you're carrying\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">responsibility versus skills that you do or don't have, and your confidence, more or less lags behind your growth until your results catch up.\u00a0So\u00a0it's feeling\u00a0like\u00a0you're\u00a0always\u00a0running\u00a0a race. And the first time I really noticed this was my\u00a0pattern\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">was\u00a0I was in a training class where one of the things we had to do was put together a puzzle. And I am not a puzzle person. I looked at the puzzle pieces and went, oh my goodness, I have no idea what\u00a0I'm\u00a0doing.\u00a0I'm\u00a0out. That was my first response.\u00a0Like, no, I\u00a0can't\u00a0do this. I\u00a0can't\u00a0do this. After we were debriefing and the facilitator said, \u201cHow does this show up, your first response? How does it show up in your life?\u201d And I thought, oh my goodness. My\u00a0first\u00a0 approach\u00a0to everything new is, oh my gosh, I have no idea how to do this. And what helped me through that was starting to track my outcomes instead of my emotions. Once I could see the patterns of my impact, I was able to replace some of that feeling\u00a0of\u00a0 uncertainty\u00a0with the facts of what I was, what\u00a0I'm\u00a0able to do. I also recognize that when\u00a0I'm\u00a0faced with something new, I am someone that needs to pause, take a step\u00a0back\u00a0and look at the whole picture I respond to something. But knowing that about myself has been\u00a0very helpful.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips:\u00a0I love that\u00a0you're\u00a0talking about over preparing.\u00a0'cause\u00a0I think when I first started teaching and, and doing training sessions, I was in a class one\u00a0time\u00a0and somebody asked me a question. clue what to say.\u00a0Had\u00a0no answer, and I just\u00a0kind of made\u00a0a joke and went on. But after that, every single class\u00a0I'm, I brainstorm what questions\u00a0could they\u00a0possibly ask\u00a0me. And\u00a0so\u00a0I had like a whole other notebook of questions and answers. Like, that's not realistic or\u00a0good\u00a0way to manage my time. But I remember doing\u00a0that\u00a0and\u00a0I've\u00a0talked to other people who felt the same way instead of just having that. That confidence to say, I\u00a0don't\u00a0know. Let me find out and get back to you because you feel like you have to be absolutely perfect and\u00a0on\u00a0your game all the time.\u00a0it's\u00a0a weakness if you admit that you\u00a0don't\u00a0know something. Because then that voice is like, \u201cI told you so; I\u00a0told you\u00a0you\u00a0didn't\u00a0know that. Why are you even doing this?\u201d\u00a0when\u00a0that's\u00a0not the case.\u00a0I think the biggest facilitator or trainer\u00a0unlock is when you\u00a0don't\u00a0know\u00a0and somebody tells you at some point in your career that you can just turn it over to the room and say, what do you all think about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: I love that, and\u00a0it's\u00a0a huge unlock.\u00a0It's\u00a0like,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">these\u00a0are the secrets that you\u00a0don't\u00a0learn in a class or a set setting somewhere, right? You hear that from somebody you\u00a0admire\u00a0and\u00a0they're\u00a0like, just do this. I also\u00a0love about\u00a0how you said\u00a0you\u00a0journal, you kept a list of your outcomes. I have\u00a0a, a\u00a0file, like a diary of all the good things that happened.\u00a0I'm\u00a0like,\u00a0I did this. I\u00a0saw the light, light bulb moment in season today and, and that is a good thing that makes me realize how capable and how much\u00a0I've\u00a0grown.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: Another piece of that is not having to be the first to respond once you do know the answers, so giving the space for the people in the room so you're, you realize that you have the answers, but you don't have to respond first.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">[Ad]\u202f\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><\/i><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">As a learning leader, your organization\u00a0looks to you to close skills gaps, meet compliance standards, prepare your business for the future and more \u2014 which is a lot of responsibility, especially for a team of one.\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0why we created Tia, your AI-powered Training Industry assistant\u00a0Tia\u00a0is upskilled on Training Industry\u2019s vast library of resources, including research, job aids, course content and more. Use Tia is your guide for tackling any L&amp;D tasks. By becoming a Training Industry member, you\u2019ll gain access to Tia, in addition to becoming a part of the membership community where you can connect with like-minded L&amp;D practitioners and experts, driving the business of learning can be challenging, but remember, you don\u2019t have to go it alone. Try Tia today for just $30 per month. Sign up at\u202f<\/span><\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/shannon-layton-a15a4b162\"><i><span data-contrast=\"none\">trainingindustry.com\/membership<\/span><\/i><\/a><i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><\/i><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u202f<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:\u00a0I\u2019d love to talk a little bit more about when you are in these moments of imposter syndrome and having those doubts, could you share some strategies or mindset shifts that you've personally used to kind of help you overcome those moments?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0I think for me, I stopped trying to get rid of my doubts and started listening to them. To see what they were telling me about myself and the things that I value. I think when\u00a0we're\u00a0tapped\u00a0in to\u00a0what value\u00a0it's\u00a0attacking in\u00a0us,\u00a0it can sometimes give us a lot more information I use an internal sequence. Which full disclosure,\u00a0I'm\u00a0writing\u00a0a book about imposter syndrome. So,\u00a0I'm\u00a0calling it \u201cThe Rise Shift,\u201d and it is\u00a0recognize\u00a0when\u00a0your\u00a0thinking has moved from problem solving into rumination. Because until we recognize that\u00a0that's\u00a0happening,\u00a0it's\u00a0really hard\u00a0to do anything about it. Interpret the story that\u00a0you're\u00a0telling\u00a0 yourself\u00a0because\u00a0we're\u00a0really,\u00a0really good\u00a0at\u00a0making up\u00a0things that we think other people are thinking, and we do it on a regular basis. And when we get in front of a large group of people, we're always like, what are these people thinking of me right now? then shifting to that more accurate evidence based view of yourself and those outcomes that you took stock of, I'll\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">call them your receipts.\u00a0So\u00a0keep receipts for those\u00a0great things\u00a0that\u00a0you're\u00a0doing so you know when you have a doubt. And then experiment with the kinds of visible, visible actions that you have done or that you can take, and that keeps you moving forward, even though uncertainty is present.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips:\u00a0Those are all,\u00a0that's\u00a0amazing. I love that. I\u00a0can't\u00a0wait for your book to come out. I think.\u00a0It's\u00a0so important for me when I see myself having these doubts. The number one thing is I talk about it a lot, I told my manager, I told my team,\u00a0I'm\u00a0like, this is something that I see in the industry. I see people having this, and I will admit that this is something that I struggle with sometimes.\u00a0So\u00a0everybody's\u00a0on the same page, so my manager knows. If I go to her and say, I know this is crazy, and I know this is not true, help me work it through it. She knows where that background is coming from. I think a lot of people in the learning and development world\u00a0don't\u00a0talk about it because if they\u00a0talk\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">about\u00a0it, is it a weakness? Are they admitting\u00a0that maybe, maybe\u00a0those doubts are true,\u00a0maybe\u00a0they're\u00a0not, but\u00a0let's\u00a0just not talk about it.\u00a0Let's\u00a0just shove it under the bed.\u00a0That's\u00a0also how I clean my house. But you know, whatever, I talk about it and I let people\u00a0know\u00a0and I do have a folder of wins.\u00a0I think that's really important.\u00a0I also keep every single certificate\u00a0I've\u00a0ever earned, and when\u00a0I'm\u00a0feeling like\u00a0I'm\u00a0not qualified, I just kind of flip through it and be like, \u201cOh, I did this and I did this, and I did this.\u201d It lifts me up.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: Those are your receipts, and that's really good.\u00a0I think\u00a0it's\u00a0also important to\u00a0note that\u00a0confidence. Typically follows action, not the other way around.\u00a0So\u00a0a lot of times we think we have to do all these actions before we feel\u00a0confident,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">but\u00a0a lot of times it doesn't come first. You do the thing and then\u00a0you're\u00a0like, oh, that\u00a0wasn't\u00a0so bad. Okay, now\u00a0I'm\u00a0confident that I can do this.\u00a0So\u00a0when we think about imposter syndrome and how we feel or where we\u00a0don't\u00a0feel ready or\u00a0don't\u00a0feel right, your response to that doubt matters so much more than the actual doubt itself.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: Oh, absolutely. I\u00a0think like\u00a0I'm\u00a0lucky I can\u00a0talk with it\u00a0about it with people at work, but if you\u00a0can't. If you belong to a professional association or\u00a0you have\u00a0a cheerleader, or you are in a group on LinkedIn, there are people out there that you could share those thoughts with and get suggestions on how to deal [with\u00a0them].\u00a0And I think\u00a0that's\u00a0important too, because\u00a0I think it\u00a0thrives in silence if\u00a0you're\u00a0not talking about it, if\u00a0you're\u00a0not addressing it,\u00a0it's\u00a0just like any other fear, right? If you\u00a0don't\u00a0address it,\u00a0it's\u00a0just going to get worse, and we\u00a0don't\u00a0want that to happen.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo: I kind of want to touch on one nuance here, which is there's\u00a0sort of this\u00a0very real pressure that many L&amp;D\u00a0leaders\u00a0kind of\u00a0are\u00a0feeling to justify their role or impact, especially during times of economic shifts or uncertainty. Hearing\u00a0about\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">layoffs\u00a0and budget cuts that can create this very real pressure. And how does that sort of feed into imposter syndrome? Are there any ways that L&amp;D leaders can reframe or respond to this pressure in a healthier way?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips:\u00a0For me,\u00a0it's\u00a0not about showing\u2026\u00a0So\u00a0I'm\u00a0in insurance and I am not about showing how my\u00a0training\u00a0 increases\u00a0sales. I am about twisting that framework, that narrative, and showing how my training saves us money in E&amp;O claims, error and omission claims. How\u00a0the training does\u00a0this and this is why\u00a0it's\u00a0important.\u00a0So\u00a0I think once I realized that shift, how I kind of\u00a0reframed\u00a0the ROI, it made more sense for me.\u00a0So\u00a0I felt more comfortable explaining why my role was important. I\u00a0don't\u00a0know if every industry can do that, but\u00a0I think you\u00a0have to\u00a0find a way to make it comfortable for\u00a0you\u00a0so you feel good about talking about it. Because if\u00a0you're\u00a0\u2026\u00a0I'm\u00a0not a numbers\u00a0person,\u00a0I\u00a0don't\u00a0get numbers. I get feelings, but I\u00a0don't\u00a0get numbers.\u00a0So\u00a0if you're not a\u00a0numbers\u00a0person, you have to find some way that you can explain it and feel confident because if you don't feel confident, it's not going to go over.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: I always joke that in\u00a0learning,\u00a0nobody told me\u00a0there'd\u00a0be math.\u00a0So\u00a0when we think that measurement or proving value has to do with values that are numerical,\u00a0it's\u00a0sometimes scary. And that constant scrutiny can turn into internal scrutiny where you\u00a0ruminate on\u00a0things.\u00a0when\u00a0you're\u00a0constantly and repeatedly asked to prove your value,\u00a0it's\u00a0easy to start questioning your value.\u00a0It's\u00a0easy to start questioning your work, ,\u00a0because\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0when learning's working well, who gets the credit?\u00a0It's\u00a0not you,\u00a0it's\u00a0the business. The business is doing\u00a0a great job. When learning\u00a0isn't\u00a0going well, the attention comes to you, which then creates some chronic pressure for the L&amp;D person. And a\u00a0rule's\u00a0legitimacy is regularly evaluated, people in that role. Internalize that evaluation and it starts to shape their identity.\u00a0And if you think about L&amp;D and L&amp;D leaders, we operate in high accountability systems with shared attributions, and you're asked to show ROI across human systems that you have no control over.\u00a0And that environment creates ongoing tension. Even though we are not in the business of measuring the effectiveness of people,\u00a0that's\u00a0my favorite thing to say. We\u00a0don't\u00a0measure people. We measure programs. We measure the effectiveness of programs.\u00a0That measuring\u00a0the effectiveness of people is a frontline\u00a0leader's\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">job. We can help set them up for\u00a0success,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">but\u00a0I think it's really important that we shift our language.\u00a0when\u00a0we're\u00a0talking about this to outcomes that are observable.\u00a0So\u00a0what was the behavior change? What was the quality of\u00a0the decision\u00a0making? How did we grow\u00a0a capability? How did the performance shift?\u00a0Because\u00a0all of\u00a0that the stuff that grounds your work and the evidence\u00a0you're\u00a0doing and that it works and that it matters.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Michelle Eggleston Schwartz:\u00a0Definitely being\u00a0in that role where\u00a0you're\u00a0constantly having to prove your value, show that evidence can create a lot of doubt in imposter syndrome for sure.\u00a0I'd\u00a0like to dig in and explore the role of organizational culture, in either reinforcing or reducing imposter syndrome for learning leaders.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0This is something that I feel really strongly about.\u00a0Actually\u00a0today I posted something about how if\u00a0you're\u00a0a carrot and stick type of leader, you should think about whether\u00a0you're\u00a0managing animals or people. Because it really does matter. Culture shapes how safe people feel when they\u00a0aren't\u00a0certain about stuff. And\u00a0I've\u00a0seen people thrive in environments where questions were\u00a0welcomed\u00a0and feedback flows both ways.\u00a0Good feedback\u00a0loops. I\u00a0can't\u00a0say\u00a0enough\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">good\u00a0things about, when people are free to admit that they\u00a0don't\u00a0really know something or they still have something to learn and it\u00a0doesn't\u00a0feel punitive,\u00a0there's\u00a0a lot more opportunity for people to grow in and thrive. But if you have an environment where expectations are\u00a0really unclear\u00a0and things are pivoting, the leader wanted it this way. Now, the leader wanted it that way. And we\u00a0know in\u00a0learning this happens a lot, especially with your stakeholders. Well,\u00a0that's\u00a0not what they wanted. They\u00a0didn't\u00a0know what they wanted until they saw what they\u00a0didn't\u00a0want, some of that inconsistency then that leads to never really getting recognition, which people sometimes need to do the work well and comparison. Well, Mary\u00a0didn't\u00a0do it that way, and you know, Mary was always our learning\u00a0person\u00a0and she just did whatever we told her to. And you\u00a0can't\u00a0say, well, Mary was an order taker, because\u00a0that's\u00a0not going to go over well. But where we have environments where we can make our contribution more visible. Partner in a way that sets up that frontline leader for success, we will be able to feel less impost and thrive more as a culture. But part of that is really clarifying expectations, recognizing\u00a0contributions\u00a0and building partnerships that feel more like a handshake than a hand off most of our environments.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: Absolutely. You\u00a0have to\u00a0have a space where you work\u00a0that\u00a0you feel safe to ask questions, to say, I know this is how\u00a0we've\u00a0always done it, but what if we try it this way? I think a lot of organizations love to say they have\u00a0a culture\u00a0learning, but they really don't.\u00a0Right? They just slap that label on there and keep going. But if you have a true culture of learning, we know that sometimes. We\u00a0don't\u00a0succeed at the first time, and\u00a0that's\u00a0not\u00a0a bad thing.\u00a0We,\u00a0didn't\u00a0fail. We got experience. We learned a way that\u00a0didn't\u00a0work,\u00a0you\u00a0have to\u00a0be somewhere that appreciates that and lets you grow. If you\u00a0don't\u00a0have room to grow as a learning leader,\u00a0you're\u2026\u00a0it's\u00a0not good, right?\u00a0You're\u00a0like,\u00a0Mary, who becomes the order taker and just does whatever. We want to be able to grow, but\u00a0we\u2019ve\u00a0got to grow in a safe space where we get that encouragement, where we get that feedback, where we get like,\u00a0good job, you did this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0That's\u00a0so important. I think it's really important for us to recognize that clear signals help people trust the place that they are and for our people who are searching for jobs right now, and there's a lot of them out there, somebody is telling you, well, we have a really good learning culture here.\u00a0coach\u00a0in\u00a0me\u00a0wants to push you to ask the question, can\u00a0you explain what learning culture means in this organization?\u00a0It'll probably open up a lot more conversation.\u00a0And remember that\u00a0goes\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">both\u00a0ways.\u00a0It's\u00a0not just them wanting you,\u00a0it's\u00a0you wanting to work in an environment where your skills are\u00a0valued\u00a0and you can grow and develop.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo: A hundred percent.\u00a0We've\u00a0covered so much ground today, and\u00a0I'd\u00a0love if we could, um, close things off by offering some tangible advice for l and d professionals who are\u00a0sort of stuck\u00a0in this cycle of self-doubt. Do you have any advice or tips for people in that position and\u00a0really how\u00a0they can move forward with more confidence?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips: I think the number one tip for me that I would give anybody\u00a0find\u00a0a person.\u00a0Find\u00a0someone you can talk to has been so successful for me. Find a cheerleader, someone who has your\u00a0back,\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">and\u00a0they\u00a0can,\u00a0they can\u00a0give\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">you\u00a0the good and the bad, right?\u00a0Maybe your\u00a0concerns are valid,\u00a0maybe\u00a0they're\u00a0not, but they can help you separate the two. I journal. I journal a lot, so writing it down, my wins, even if\u00a0they're\u00a0small, a win is a win. And that really helps me. Those are my two big takeaways.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders: I will say yes. And keep in mind from a systems point of view, that l and d is a field that changes\u00a0really quickly, but it also stays the same lot.\u00a0So\u00a0there's\u00a0a lot going on, right?\u00a0We've\u00a0got AI, which is changing a lot of things, and then we have changes that change things.\u00a0But this basic backbone of L&amp;D hasn\u2019t changed a lot in a very long time.\u00a0Uncertainty is part of our role, but how you interpret it really shapes how you function and how you lead.\u00a0So\u00a0I'm\u00a0going to challenge\u00a0everybody\u00a0listening to treat their\u00a0initial\u00a0thought\u00a0as information first, and\u00a0I'll\u00a0give you kind of three things that will be helpful. The first thing is when you have that imposter thought, I want you to tell yourself,\u00a0I'm\u00a0having imposter thoughts, not I am an imposter.\u00a0Don't\u00a0attach that thought to who you are as a human being because\u00a0that's\u00a0not going to help you or anybody else. It can send you quickly into a spiral. The second one is. Keep that record of your outcomes, even keep records of the things that you influenced. Today, I had a really good meeting where I influenced this stakeholder to change the way they were doing things because\u00a0I\u00a0 knew\u00a0it was better for the performance of the team. And then the third one is I want you to consider\u00a0taking action\u00a0before you feel like\u00a0you're\u00a0ready to again, confidence\u00a0sometimes comes after you take that action, and if you take that action. might be an opportunity for you to sigh a sigh of relief and recognize how great you are.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Well,\u00a0that's\u00a0a great note to end on.\u00a0Loren and Ruth, thank you so much for joining us today.\u00a0How can our listeners\u00a0get in touch with\u00a0you after the episode if\u00a0they'd\u00a0like to reach out?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Ruth Phillips:\u00a0Reach out to me on LinkedIn\u00a0I love\u00a0connections. I love\u00a0messages.\u00a0I'm\u00a0always on LinkedIn posting\u00a0about and\u00a0development, training, insurance, my\u00a0cats.\u00a0So\u00a0reach out, connect with me.\u00a0I'd\u00a0love to talk more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Loren Sanders:\u00a0I'll\u00a0say the\u00a0same. You can reach out to me through LinkedIn. You can reach out to me through the Wheel Learn website.\u00a0If you're somebody that likes reflections, I pretty much post something related to leadership with a reflection on a daily basis.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sarah Gallo:\u00a0Awesome. Well, for more resources on this topic, check out the episode description or visit the show notes on our website at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/podcast\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">trainingindustry.com\/podcast<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"auto\">, and\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u200a<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> make sure to subscribe for more\u00a0timely\u00a0episodes like this one. Until next time.<\/span>","full_width":false,"content_band":null,"tice_sponsors":"","custom_dfp_keywords":""},"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.8 (Yoast SEO v27.5) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Business of Learning Ep. 95: Imposter Syndrome<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Learn to recognize, manage, and overcome imposter syndrome to build confidence and drive impact in L&amp;D roles.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/articles\/professional-development\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Business of Learning, Episode 95: Navigating Imposter Syndrome as an L&amp;D Leader\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Learn to recognize, manage, and overcome imposter syndrome to build confidence and drive impact in L&amp;D roles.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/articles\/professional-development\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Training Industry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/TrainingIndustry\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-06-02T13:43:35+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/trainingindustry.com\/content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/ti-logo-stacked.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"400\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"400\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@TrainingIndustr\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"22 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/professional-development\\\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/professional-development\\\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\\\/\",\"name\":\"Business of Learning Ep. 95: Imposter Syndrome\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2026-03-26T12:00:49+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-06-02T13:43:35+00:00\",\"description\":\"Learn to recognize, manage, and overcome imposter syndrome to build confidence and drive impact in L&D roles.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/professional-development\\\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/professional-development\\\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/professional-development\\\/the-business-of-learning-episode-95-navigating-imposter-syndrome-as-an-ld-leader-cptm\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Articles\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/articles\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":3,\"name\":\"The Business of Learning, Episode 95: Navigating Imposter Syndrome as an L&#038;D Leader\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/trainingindustry.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"Training Industry\",\"description\":\"Articles, research and tools for the L&amp;D professional. 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